Meeting documents

Appendix 2

St John`s Catholic Primary School, Bath

The search for a new site

PUBLIC CONSULTATION MEETINGS

A summary report of the questions raised at two public meetings held on

28 February and 2 March 2005

Prepared by

MSS RESEARCH

Colston Tower

Colston Street

BRISTOL

BS1 4XE

Reference: 4441 B&NES St John's Consultation Report

Created: 14 March 2005

Author: John Groves-Hill

Section 1

Introduction

1.1

Background

B&NES has been working with the Governors of St John's Catholic Primary School for some years in order to try and find a new site for the school.

Currently, two potential sites are under consideration:

B7 Odd Down Playing Fields

B7 Odd Down Park & Ride

As part of the process of informing the Council's decision, two public consultation meetings were held on 28 February and 2 March, 2005, at St Philip's CofE Primary School and St Martin's Garden Primary School.

The meetings were attended by members of the general public and other interested groups.

Each meeting lasted for two hours and representatives from the Council were present to hear and respond to, questions from the audience. Roving microphones allowed the audience to address their questions from the floor.

An independent Chair was appointed by the Council in order to facilitate the meetings and to prepare this objective report to summarise the key question areas that were raised. The Chair was John Groves-Hill, Managing Director of MSS Research, an independent market research company based in Bristol. MSS has no connection with the Council, nor any interest or opinion regarding the issues related to this consultation.

To ensure that questions were accurately recorded, the meetings were audio-taped (this being made clear to the audience at the meetings) and the tapes passed to MSS. These audio tapes have also been made available to some members of the audience who specifically requested copies.

1.2

This Report

This report is intended to be a factual summary record of the key issues raised. It does not draw any conclusions since its remit is simply to ensure that questions and views expressed by the audience are documented for the Council to consider further.

It is not a verbatim transcript and does not document the answers to questions raised, since it is understood that the Council will provide a separate extensive report, to which this report will be an Appendix.

Where possible, issues raised have been grouped under general headings.

Section 2

Issues raised

2.1

Planning Policy

The fact that both sites were subject to current planning policies was a source of concern to many present at the meeting.

Specifically, this was that the Odd Down Park & Ride was designated as Green Belt and that the Odd Down Playing Fields was designated as Open Space.

Most attending the meetings disagreed with the potential overruling of designated use to suit. A number of specific points were raised regarding this:

Odd Down Park & Ride

B7 This has been designated a Green Belt area and therefore, according to current regulations, should not be developed upon

B7 Building a school would set a precedent and housing and industrial development may follow

B7 Further development on Green Belt sites can lead to an `urban sprawl', which could have an adverse affect on Bath City Centre by slowing down regeneration and development, as has happened in other cites or towns in the UK

B7 Bath is a heritage city that has made a feature of being surrounded by green hills and countryside

B7 As this is a Green Belt site, permission would need to be given by the Secretary of State for the Environment; this could cause delays of up to two years or more, as previously shown in an application for the housing development on the adjacent site at Fullers Earthworks. This took two years before it was rejected, although it had been given planning permission by the Council

B7 Money and time would be wasted on developing a site that ultimately the Council would not be allowed to build on

Odd Down Playing Fields

B7 Many felt that there was a lack of open green spaces in the Bath area and that it would be a great loss if this one were also to go - open spaces are beneficial to communities, help reduce crime and are already in short supply in Bath

B7 If, as according to Sport England, any development on recreational land would mean providing a suitable and accessible local replacement, where would this replacement be?

B7 The loss of Norwood to the University was seen as an example of the lack of respect of B&NES Council for recreational public open spaces and there was concern that building a school on these playing fields could be a repeat of this

B7 Recreational, as well as educational, needs of all children in Bath need to be considered

B7 It is recognised in the Local Plan that Bath Open Spaces, including Odd Down Playing Field, are already overused, so reducing the size would only cause further problems

B7 Some disputed the claim that the school would take 9-11% of the site, as this includes car parks and other areas not used for recreation - the figure was placed closer to 20%

B7 The fact the prefabs built on the Playing Fields after the war had not been demolished and the land given back to recreational use led attendees to worry that even less open space was available now, and that no further open space would be provided to compensate for any loss

2.2

Traffic

Increase in traffic at both sites was a major concern amongst attendees and this issue was raised a number of times.

There was worry over the effect that increased traffic would have on parking and pollution in Odd Down.

Specific objections included the following:

B7 Concern that proper assessment of the effect of the increase into traffic had not taken place

B7 Currently residents were unaware of the results of a traffic census held at Knowles Corner on 13^th January and wished to know how this effected any decision taken

B7 Without a link road for the A36/A4, there is a considerable amount of through traffic in Odd Down already

B7 The Park & Ride already generates increased traffic, as do the current schools, hospital and MoD

B7 The fact that the school would serve a large geographical area in South Bath suggests that many of the journeys to school would be by car

B7 An earlier report to Executive Committee suggested that access to the Playing Field site is inadequate and that further land would have to be purchased

For the Odd Down Park & Ride site in particular, the following concerns were raised:

B7 For Option A, an entrance would be at the current entrance mixing cars/coaches of the Park & Ride and would rely on everyone using a one-way system around the site, which may be confusing

B7 For Option B, an entrance would be required at Combe Hay lane, which is currently used as a `rat run' for those avoiding traffic on the A367

B7 For Option C, school traffic will affect traffic on the A367, which currently has considerable tailbacks at peak times

B7 The level of traffic generated by a Park & Ride was felt to increase pollution and danger to children if located in such close proximity to a school

2.3

Existing Education Provision

Objections were raised about placing another school in the Odd Down area as it was felt that Odd Down was more than adequately provided for with primary schools already.

Many were worried over the effect that a new school in the area would have on the primary schools already here.

There was also concern over the intended size of the school (315 pupils) for the reasons below:

B7 Overall, there are already surplus places in the Odd Down area, approximately 120, with rising house prices and falling family sizes given as possible reasons why this is more likely to continue than reverse

B7 Currently there are 286 pupils enrolled in St John's. As approximately 180 of the pupils are Roman Catholic, there is worry that many of the others choose to use St John's because it is local rather than because it is a Roman Catholic school, and therefore others may enrol there if the school moves to Odd Down

B7 It was requested that figures for the number of Roman Catholic pupils likely to enrol should be published

B7 This would increase the number of surplus school places in Odd Down and therefore this raises the possibility of one of the Odd Down schools closing in the future

B7 Parents, teachers and other interested parties are concerned that the unfair advantage of newer facilities of the school may attract local pupils to enroll at St John's rather than the current primary schools, increasing surplus places at these local schools

B7 As this school would be a Roman Catholic school, it may not be suitable for all children if one of the other schools were to close. It was questioned whether it is feasible in terms of school numbers for three different denomination schools to be sited in close proximity

2.4

Choice Of Sites

Concerns were raised about reasons that these two sites had been chosen, whether other sites were a possibility, why other sites had been rejected and whether enough research had been conducted to consider these two sites as feasible options.

B7 Wansdyke Business Centre was put forward by a number of people as a more appropriate site, with the following reasons given:

o The business site is currently underused

o It is of a suitable size for a 315-pupil school

o Using this land would avoid the problems of either building on Green Belt or Open Space land

o The businesses currently located there could be relocated to either the site(s) where St John's School is at the moment, or to another business centre in the city; Pulteney Road was suggested, as were the sites of other schools throughout the city that have closed

B7 There was concern that cost was driving the decision; that the Council were reluctant to use Wansdyke Business Centre as they would lose revenue from businesses and that a playing field is an cheap place to build on as it is flat with no call for any demolition

B7 As Lymore Avenue was the main option for such a long period of time, there were concerns that not enough research had gone into the feasibility of placing the school at the sites at Odd Down

B7 Concerns were raised over the health and safety issues of placing a school next to a waste disposal unit that causes pollution and dust to be poured into the air

B7 Several people mentioned that this site was heavily undermined and supported by wooden beams, again questioning the safety and cost of building a school there

B7 Some attendees felt that the Park & Ride was so unsuitable that they believed the Odd Down Playing Field was actually the only option being considered

2.5

Consultation Process

A number of attendees objected to the fact that they felt the consultation was only with regard to which site in Odd Down should be chosen, rather than whether the school should be sited in Odd Down at all.

This raised a number of issues:

B7 Concern whether any level of objection would be enough to stop placing of the school on either of these sites

B7 Whether the relevant people at St John's School had been consulted over the current options for sites and whether they would agree for either to be chosen

B7 Whether enough relevant bodies, such as B&NES Planning & Development Control, B&NES Highways Department. B&NES Sports & Leisure and the Clifton Catholic Diocese Schools Commission have been consulted adequately if it all regarding the potential of these sites

B7 Whether the meeting of the 4 May (to make a final decision) will only decide which of the two sites to proceed with, or if the decision can be made that neither site is appropriate

B7 If any interested party will be able to access a full summary of these meetings (audio and/or written) to ensure all objections, questions and views have been noted

2.6

Other concerns

The main other concerns relate to the effect on the physical environment that a primary school can bring.

These include:

B7 Litter

B7 Noise of children and of bells

B7 The visual impact of another school

B7 A sheltered housing community is currently opposite the Playing Field and residents of this might be adversely affected

Section 3

MSS Research

3.1

Background

MSS is a full-service, market research agency based in Bristol. MSS was formed in 1980 and has eight full-time employees.

To the best of our ability, the above report represents a fair summary of the issues and questions raised by the audience attending the two meetings.

MSS RESEARCH

Colston Tower

Colston Street

BRISTOL

BS1 4XE

www.mssresearch.co.uk

John Groves-Hill

Managing Director

St John`s Catholic Primary School, Bath

The search for a new site

PUBLIC CONSULTATION MEETINGS

Minutes of meeting taken at St Alpheges Church Hall on 9^th June at 7pm

Prepared by

Bath & North East Somerset Council

Education Department

Schools Capital & Organisation Team

Riverside, Keynsham

Bristol

Minutes of Public Meeting

St Alpheges Church Hall, Bath

9^th June 2005 at 7pm

The purpose of the meeting was outlined; to provide an opportunity for the wider community around Oldfield Lane to express views on the advantages and disadvantages of St Johns RC Primary School moving to this site. The site, also known as St Alphege's, is currently occupied by the Infant Department of St John's School. The meeting was attended by approximately 250 people.

General Points

This report is intended to be a factual summary record of the key issues raised at the meeting. It is not a full transcript. Issues raised have been grouped under general headings.

General opinions of those present

There was overwhelming support for the school to be located at Oldfield Lane. The major issue raised was that the current site owned by the diocese of Clifton and comprising the area currently occupied by St John's School Infant Department and the allotments was much too small for a 315 place Primary School There was recognition that the Church Hall could be replaced as part of the development, providing a joint school and Church Hall and that this would provide a little more space. However, there was a very strongly held view that the only way to provide sufficient space for the school on this site would be to incorporate the Wansdyke Business Park into the land available.

Towards the end of the meeting a member of the audience asked if a vote could be taken on whether the school should be located at Oldlfield Lane and if so whether this should include not only the current school site owned by the diocese of Clifton but also the Wansdyke Business Park.

The results were

(i) How many people would vote for St John's Primary School coming to this site, including the Business Park and the current school site?

(ii) If the site for the new school was only the existing school site and not incorporating the Wansdyke Business Park, would you still vote for the school coming to this site?

(iii) How many people think the school should not come to this site at all?

B7 Many people stated the time taken to resolve this issue had been much too long. Going on to say it has been six years since OFSTED report said how bad it was for the education of the children that the school should be on two sites

B7 The patience of parents and staff over the last four to five years was commended.

Advantages of the Oldfield Lane Site

B7 93A portion of the school is already here, so it is an established part of the local community94.

B7 93This site is not overlooked by any houses. There is a Linear Park runs along the back, and although there are roads running along, they don't overlook the site94.

B7 93The Oldfield Lane site is within walking distance for a lot of the chldren who already go to the school94.

B7 93It will help regenerate the Community in the area. A good school in this community was seen as encouraging more families to move into the area94.

B7 93Many parents who would normally walk children to school drive to Oldfield Lane after going to the main school, adding to traffic. Overall traffic will reduce and not increase if the school is here94.

B7 Some local residents supported the school on this site saying they enjoyed having children walking past going to school. 93It is a wonderful school, and this is an ideal site94.

B7 93In previous meetings, local residents have been quite hostile to locating the school in their area. Here local residents are much more positive94.

B7 A member of the Management Committee for Hillside Hall suggested the Hall could be used as a resource to provide additional space for this school.

B7 93The school community benefits the wider community, keeping local shops going. Moorlands Road shopping centre is a thriving area, because parents and staff from the school use them. Traders have said that the two hours around school time are their busiest94.

Disadvantages of the Oldfield Lane Site

B7 93Parking is an issue now. If you have an event, like a fete or a funeral, cars are parked everywhere94.

B7 93It is going to increase the traffic in the area94.

B7 93School rolls are falling. Placing the school here will add to the surplus places in this part of Bath94.

Support for the current school site at Oldfield Lane together with Wansdyke Business Park providing the site for the St John's School

B7 A large number of people expressed the view that if the Business Park were incorporated, then a single storey building with a grass field would be possible.

B7 A large number of people expressed concerns at how cramped the school would be on the existing school site and the need for additional space.

B7 Many people expressed the view that the site without the Business Centre is too small.

B7 93Putting 315 children on a space which is roughly 60% undersized is not appropriate and would lead to major discipline problem in a school with no discipline problems94.

B7 93Difficult for the children to play in such a small playground. We need to remember what the children need94.

B7 93The importance of the development, that is for the school, would outweigh the economic benefits of the existing use of the Wansdyke Business Park94.

B7 93As an educationalist, I see this site as the best site, but not a two or three storey building, especially not without a pitch. This site with the commercial site next door is required. Yes, there are problems. Yes, it is expensive. What we need is the political will. We know the problems, but please we ask you to find the political will to make this happen94.

B7 93There is the traffic of the parents currently at the school, but also the traffic to the Business Centre next door. If the Business Centre was included as part of the plan, that it is an instant reduction in traffic94.

B7 93Is it not possible to relocate businesses, perhaps to the Western Riverside development or the Clark's factory? Both of which have far better transport and communication links than this site94.

B7 93Plans in the public domain about the re-development of the WhiteWay Community Centre, under the guise of the Bath Community Partnership Project. I don't see why within those plans, with incubator units in there, there is no reason why those businesses couldn't be relocated to there given the time delays and the commitment by the Council to support the development of St Johns School on the site including the Wansdyke Business Park94.

B7 93We would like to refute this claim that it is difficult to relocate businesses. The business centre is not full at the moment94.

B7 93The buildings of the business centre are not really of architectural merit94.

B7 93No one would disagree that this school would be better if the Wansdyke Business Centre was included. So what we are talking about is Money94.

B7 93If the decision is made to be built here without the business centre, that decision would be taken to a judicial review94.

B7 93If the site is offered without the business centre, the governors can also reject it94.