Meeting documents
Cabinet
Wednesday, 5th May, 2004
Appendix 2
Tyndale - meeting with residents and relatives 19 April 2004 (6pm)
Present:
|
Name |
Post |
|
David Smallacombe |
Project Manager |
|
Jane Shayler |
Head of Housing and Supported Living |
|
Yvonne Case |
Residential Services Team Manager |
|
Cllr Paul Crossley |
Leader of the Council |
|
Sheila Wright |
Manager |
|
Name |
Resident |
|
Margaret Woodland |
Edith (Molly) Woolley |
|
Michael Jefferys |
Grace Pow |
|
Brenda Jefferys |
Grace Pow |
|
Mike Talbot |
Mrs H. Gerrish |
|
Cllr Tony Cox |
|
|
Donald Rosevear |
Joan Rosevear |
|
Barbara Draper |
Nancy Strudwick |
|
Peter Robertson |
May Woodman |
|
Jean Robertson |
May Woodman |
|
Brian Joyce |
Bessie Plum |
|
Wendy Francis |
Poppy Smith |
|
Neville Francis |
Poppy Smith |
|
Mrs Kissling |
Poppy Smith |
|
Mrs Sheppard |
Constance Comley |
Apologies were received from Cllr Francine Haeberling
DS asked everyone to introduce themselves. He said that the joint report on the possible closure of Tyndale and Woodside was to be presented to the Executive Committee on 5 May. The officers had met staff at Tyndale earlier today, and would be meeting with staff and relatives at Woodside tomorrow. DS would talk about the report, but only the parts relevant to Tyndale. A copy of the report would be available from 4pm tomorrow when the meetings at Woodside were due to start, but he felt it would be unfair to discuss Woodside before then.
The recommendation of the report is to close Tyndale. The report discusses the issues that have led to this situation, the impact on residents, relatives and staff, the legal implications of closure, and the consultation process that has been undertaken. The minutes of all the consultation meetings are included as appendices to the report. The report concludes that on balance, despite opposition from important stakeholders, that Tyndale should close.
Currently there are 15 residents (19 at the time the report was written). Some have already moved to the independent sector, some have taken the opportunity to move now. For those who remain the majority will probably choose one of the Council's other homes. There are more than an adequate number of places available.
Q. How long will this take?
A. Experience of a similar situation at Greenacres suggests it could be 2-3 months. DS emphasised that the pace will be set by those who live in Tyndale.
A relative stated that they wanted to wait until a decision had been made by the Executive before deciding on a placement
Q. Can we have it in writing that these new homes will be built, or will they be shelved?
A. PC - the decision was taken two years ago to build the new homes to provide a different type of care, a care village, with a range of options. That is still the Council's objective. The three centres will be in Bath, Keynsham and Radstock.
Q. There is no completion date for the Spa yet
A. PC - that is very different from new elderly person's homes. There are no plans to shelve the re-provision programme. The scheme has grown and changed and if it goes to the full Council, 65 Councillors will be voting. `Homes for life' means building larger rooms to higher standards and Cllr Crossley repeated that he was personally committed to voting for the new homes
Cllr Cox said that he had attended the first meeting and held the view that residents of 85+ should not be moved twice. The fact that there will be two moves is being hidden, and is worrying people.
PC - Those residents who are in the independent sector homes can move into the new centres of excellence when they are ready
Q. Why is Marjorie Whimster, which has very small rooms, staying open?
R. Cllr Haeberling is quoted in the Bath Chronicle as follows:
When will the new Carrswood centre
open? Can that date be guaranteed?
This date depends on the progress of the care home project.
However, clients at the centre will be involved in the design and
planning of the new building
When will the first care homes be closed in preparation for the new centres of excellence? What will happen to the current residents? Will the council listen to residents and their families?
Greenacres care home in Midsomer Norton closed last year. No dates for closure for the other homes have been set. These dates are largely dependent on agreeing the design for the new care homes and the outcome of the current consultation on the impact of the possible closures of Tyndale and Woodside. The council must ensure the new care homes are of the highest possible standard. The transition process must be sensitive to the needs of older people. If any further homes do close before the first new one opens, a full assessment of the individual needs and aspirations of residents will be undertaken. The council's aim must be to minimise disruption to the lives of older people
DS - you will remember that at our last meeting I apologised for having said there would be no interim move. I explained how the situation had changed for a combination of reasons, eg the National Care Standards Commission requires that more resources are put into homes, the vacancy numbers are high, and there is a high spend on agency staff.
The different ways of caring in the future include extra care and we need St John's Court to start providing extra care by the autumn. We need to re-invest money from the revenue savings from closing Tyndale into the re-provision budget in order to do training, meet new standards, employ in-house staff instead of agency workers, and provide the new in-reach nursing service
A relative said if we had known this would happen we would have voted to turn Tyndale over to the private sector.
DS reminded the meeting that the Council had made the decision to keep residential care in-house as part of it's commitment to care
A relative said St John's Court is flats, not residential care. DS - There will be 24-hour care at St John's Court.
A resident said that she felt forgotten, that the Council did not care. DS said he begged to differ; the Council did care and would continue to support residents. The resident said she did not want to be disturbed from her home.
A relative said again that St John's Court consisted of flats, not residential care - people could not manage for 24 hours. What about those that scald themselves?
DS said there was a big gap between living in one's own home with help and moving into residential care. Extracare is intended to fill that gap, it's a new type of care and he felt it was the right way to proceed.
Q. What about the ones who need more than Extracare?
A. There will be registered care homes in the new centres, as part of the wide range of care that will be provided
Q. Where are these residential homes?
A. In the new centres
Q. Why ensuite rooms - they don't need them?
A. Residents can have their own personal space, a room with shower and toilet ensuite rather than have to share those facilities. If they need assistance it will be available
Q. Are you telling me my mother-in-law will have to move again?
Q. What number of places will there be?
A. DS - Currently there are 180-200 places. There will be the same overall number in the new service but we are offering an improved range of care
Q. Does the building of the new centres depend on selling the empty homes?
A. No, the money will be reinvested in the reprovision budget in time, but it is not necessary to wait for the sale money to continue building the new centres now
Q. Why aren't you building now?
A. JS - we are at the designing stage. DS - the two issues have to run in parallel. PC - we have appointed builders and designers and are preparing for the planning application. Probably we will do the Radstock site first
Q. What if planning permission is refused?
A. JS - we have done concept designs, and our designers are constantly talking to the planning officers so that when the final application goes in it will have all the elements that the planning officers require. DS - the planning application is not a `done deal', but we are trying to prepare the application thoroughly. PC - we anticipate building the Radstock centre on the Greenacres site, Bath centre on Carrswood and Keynsham at Hawthorns. These are not green belt sites, the main issues are about access and we are having discussions with the planners. We are going into the planning application process confidently.
Q. Who is going to decide where residents go?
A. According to their assessments, Registered Care Home Managers and Yvonne Case
Q. What if there is a dispute?
A. DS We will manage this process sensitively so that there will be no dispute. Wherever possible and appropriate the residents' wishes will be the priority
Q. What is the timescale for moving?
A. PC -The report goes to the Executive on 5 May, they can accept it, reject it or modify it. There is then a 10 day `call-in' period, if councillors are content with the report a decision will be confirmed then. If not, it goes to a panel which could take three or four weeks, and they may then send it back to the Executive. The time-scale could therefore, be a minimum of 10 days after 5 May or two months maximum.
Q. Then you have to move people? DS - yes
Q. What happens to staff?
A. DS - we have looked at the substantive number of hours, there is a good match between what we have and what will be required. With St John's Court there will be more hours available for staff. Personnel will be having one-to-one meetings with staff to discuss reasonable and appropriate placements
Q. How will we be told of the decision?
A. DS - how would you like to be told? Would you like a further meeting, or prefer either Yvonne Case or Sheila Wright to contact you?
Relatives agreed not to have another meeting, but that they would expect to be contacted by Yvonne or Sheila.
Q. Will there be a place for my mother? We have already looked elsewhere but don't want her to move until the last minute
A. DS - suggest you talk to Yvonne Case and Sheila Wright about individual residents rather than in this meeting
Q. Should we make a decision now about where relative should go?
A. DS - again, it is best to talk to Yvonne and Sheila about your wishes
Q. Cllr Cox asked if the petition opposing closure that had been presented to the last full Council meeting could be included with the report