Meeting documents

Meeting with residents, relatives and carers at Tyndale - 19 January 2004 (6pm)

Present:

B&NES Officers:

David Smallacombe, Project Leader

Jane Ashman, Strategic Director of Social & Housing Services

Jane Shayler, Head of Housing & Supported Living

Yvonne Case, Residential Services Team Manager

Sarah Shatwell, Group Manager

Pam Reeve, Group Administrator

RESIDENTS

Mrs E Eades

Mrs J Mitchell

Mrs P Smith

Mrs V Hoare

Mrs M Woolley

FAMILIES

Mr & Mrs Eades

Mr & Mrs May

Mrs Sheppard

Mr Joyce

Mrs Kissling

Mr & Mrs Francis

Mr M Mitchell

Mrs Wyatt

Mrs Martin

STAFF

Mrs S Wright (Registered Manager)

Mrs K Whiteman (Assistant Manager)

Apologies were received from Cllr Francine Haeberling

David Smallacombe (DS) asked everyone present to introduce themselves and explained that we would make notes of the meeting which would be available to residents and relatives. The notes would record who was present, but would not say who had asked questions or made comments. DS explained that at the initial consultation meetings in 2002 he had said there would be no interim move for residents. DS acknowledged that at the time the plan was for residents to stay at Tyndale and move into the newly built homes, but the situation had changed. He introduced Sarah Shatwell (SS) who would be able to explain more.

SS said there was a background briefing available for everyone to take away. She said that a decision had been made in December 2003 to consult about the feasibility of the closure of two homes, Tyndale and Woodside. SS looked at various criteria. Tyndale had a high level of staff vacancies, over 200 staff hours per week, which had to be filled by agency workers. B&NES preferred to have in-house, permanent staff. The occupancy levels are also low, 82% across the whole service, and 73% in Tyndale over the last year. Dependency levels in Tyndale and Woodside were also wide-ranging. The cost of building maintenance was significant, requiring a spend of £2-300,000 for each home.

SS had ruled out other homes for various reasons - Sunnyside cared for residents with dementia who could not be placed elsewhere, Goldney House and Hawthorn House provided the only facilities for North East Somerset whereas Bath had a number of homes.

The service is currently overspent and if action is not taken this will be worse in the next financial year. The resources used for agency staff were needed to train B&NES staff to meet the higher level of dependency expected in the future.

Every resident will have a Community Care Assessment to enable them to make informed choices about their future, and we will continue to meet with staff and relatives to discuss all the options. The process should take about two months and, when all the information is gathered, a second report containing recommendations on the feasibility of closure will be sent to the whole Executive to make a decision.

A relative said why not sell one home and fill the other with residents and staff so that there was no need to close both. That is the solution, I do not care which one you close. You cannot build Centres of Excellence. Why close Tyndale before new homes are ready? You have been blocking beds.

DS - we restricted admissions from December but not before that

Jane Ashman (JA) said that we were not running homes down, admissions had continued until last month

A relative said she had telephoned Woodside asking for respite care. The response from staff was that it wasn't possible. The person would have to be moved again because they had been told they were closing.

DS said there were three elements to the process, a) a community Care Assessment for each resident b) meetings and one to one discussion with staff, and c) meetings with relatives to discuss options. All the information gathered would be incorporated into the report to go to the Executive.

A relative said that staff were afraid to say what they felt in case they lost their job.

A relative said that her mother-in-law had settled happily at Tyndale. Now she was to be re-assessed. Why was this necessary, wasn't she going to stay in residential care. She needed 24 hour care.

DS - everyone would have an assessment, but relatives should not be concerned that residents would drop a care level. If someone required residential care now, they would remain at that level.

JA said it was very rare for anyone to move out of 24 hour care, it sounded unlikely that this resident would do so. Before the Executive makes a decision it must be absolutely clear that residents' needs are met. DS We would have to demonstrate similar or better care, not lesser care.

A relative said that her mother was frightened of going to St John's Court. They had been told that someone would get them up, but no other help. DS - St John's Court has a number of sheltered units and we are putting a 24 hour care scheme in place.

JA said it is a possible option for someone to have their own flat with support.

A relative said that St John's Court was not built yet, not available and they had been told at the November meeting by JS that residents would have to go to St John's Court.

JS said that individual assessments would take into account residents needs and wishes. She did not say we would be placing people in St John's Court.

Relatives pointed out that no-one would consider coming into residential care if they could still manage. St John's Court had been mentioned but mother couldn't cope there.

JA said she was concerned that relatives understood that placement will depend on need.

Relatives said they had been told Keynsham and Temple Cloud homes were where residents would go.

JS We also mentioned Marjorie Whimster in Bath.

DS - if people want to stay in a particular area, whether council or private, then this will all form part of the assessment. We heard at this afternoon's meeting of some residents who would prefer to move to Wiltshire. There were questions asked too about the independent sector. In these exceptional circumstances it is possible that the Council would be able to pay for independent sector placement.

A relative said that she lived in Twerton and all residents at Marjorie Whimster had dementia. Marjorie Whimster also had the smallest rooms of all the Council homes.

A relative said that when they were looking for places in the independent sector they were told the Council had a ceiling for fees. What happens now about fees?

JA - There is a ceiling, but currently B&NES funds approximately 700 residents in the private sector and would facilitate this for Tyndale residents in the present circumstances.

A resident said that some independent homes will not take people funded by Social Services, Oriel Lodge and Larkhall Springs would not do so.

JA said that an individual assessment might produce reasons for a specific placement which could be in the independent sector.

A relative asked what happens to respite care? Where would people go if Tyndale closed? DS said B&NES would continue to provide respite care.

A relative asked if enough places were available. DS said there were approximately 40 people to place if both homes closed; 3-5 were already thinking of moving nearer to their families, some were becoming increasingly frail and might soon need nursing care. This evening there are 32 vacancies in B&NES homes so the numbers are close to adding up and more vacancies may occur during the assessment period.

JA - nothing can happen until the decision is made by the Executive. If they decide on closure then it would take time. The Authority is responsible for the care of residents and people can only move when vacancies elsewhere are available.

A resident said the Council was asset stripping. DS challenged that remark as he felt that the Council is using assets to re-invest in services for the next 15 to 20 years.

The resident said the money was needed for the Spa, but JA repeated that all money from the sites will be re-invested in the reprovision. JS said that in the earlier meeting this afternoon Councillor Haeberling had pointed out that money for building was already available.

DS said that at present the homes were not `fit for purpose' and refurbishment would be expensive and the Council couldn't put hoists in rooms when needed.

A relative said that homes didn't need ensuite facilities

A relative asked who would do the negotiating if someone wanted to move out of B&NES catchment area. DS replied that we would help as part of the Community Care Assessment process.

Resident - would the other authority pay? JA - no, B&NES would pay.

A relative asked what happens if we begin looking and find another place? DS said people should begin to plan and this would be part of the assessment. JS - need to hear from carers and relatives as part of the assessment.

A relative asked if residents who move now would be able to move into the new homes when they are built. Would they have a right to do so? DS said they might have first choice, which is different from a right to move. JA said that similarly if people settled they might not wish to move.

A relative asked if one could move from the independent sector back into council care if the independent sector care was not good enough. DS said all homes, including the independent sector, are regulated by the National Care Standards Commission. A relative said she had heard of a home where heating was only switched on when the owner arrived, and DS suggested that the NCSC should be told.

JA reiterated that all monies, which are a matter of public record, will be re-invested in the reprovision.

DS said the next part of the process would be the assessment and residents would be contacted shortly. He promised that when the report making recommendations to the Council Executive is ready there would be a meeting for residents, relatives and staff to tell them the recommendations it contained. At that meeting they would be told the date of the Executive meeting at which the report will be made public.

A relative said that she had never had an invitation to previous meetings and had not seen the slides mentioned. DS proffered apologies if she had not received an invitation.

A relative wanted to make it clear that HTV and Points West had contacted her about the possible closure, she had not approached them.

Meeting ended