Meeting documents

Meeting with residents, relatives and carers at Tyndale - 19 January 2004 (2pm)

Present:

B&NES Officers:

David Smallacombe, Project Leader

Jane Shayler, Head of Housing and Supported Living

Yvonne Case, Residential Services Team Manager

Sarah Shatwell, Group Manager

Pam Reeve, Group Administrator

Councillor Francine Haeberling

Residents:

Mrs E Eades

Mrs M Woolley

Mrs J Mitchell

Mrs L Francis

Mrs J Pike

Mr W Gerrish (On assessment)

Mrs V Sutton (Regular respite care)

Mrs P Smith

Mrs K Radway

Staff:

Sheila Wright (Registered Manager)

Kay Whiteman (Assistant Manager

Families:

Mr & Mrs Comer

Mrs Woodland

Mr & Mrs Fishlock

Mr & Mrs Jefferies

Mrs Draper

Mr & Mrs Talbot

Ms Matthews

Mr Woodman

Mr Rosevear

Mr Radway

Ms Gayne

Mrs Renwick

Mrs Weaver

Councillor Tony Cox

David Smallacombe (DS) asked everyone present to introduce themselves and explained that the purpose of the meeting was to talk to residents, relatives and carers to bring them up to date with the process of consultation about the possible closure of the Care Home and to listen to their views. DS acknowledged that as part of the original consultation in 2002 he had told staff, relatives and residents there would be `no interim move'. The plan at the time was to build all the new homes and have the residents at Tyndale move directly to one of them. That situation he explained had now changed. Sarah Shatwell (SS) produced a briefing paper, copies of which, together with copies of the report to the Executive, were made available. DS asked SS to go through the paper and explain a little more about it.

SS gave some background to the present situation. Currently we have 200+ vacant staff hours a week at Tyndale that have to be filled by agency staff, whereas the better option for residents is permanent staff to provide continuity of care. The occupancy rates are low, 82% across the whole service, and at Tyndale 73% over the past year. Tyndale has a wide range of dependency levels, some residents are very frail, and some are more independent. The building itself requires capital expenditure of £2-300,000 to bring it up to the standard required by the National Care Standards Commission. SS said the report to the Executive had taken into consideration the other homes in B&NES. Green Park House and Sunnyside have residents with particular problems that would make it difficult for them to be placed elsewhere and there is nowhere suitable available in the area. Goldney and Sunnyside provide care for the North East Somerset area, while Bath itself is well-provided for homes. Goldney has a five year lease with the Alzheimer's Society to provide facilities for day care - the only resource of its kind in the area. Marjorie Whimster has a stable staff group, and few vacancies.

B&NES is facing an overspend on residential care homes and needs to manage the situation now or it will become worse in the next financial year.

As part of the consultation process every resident will have a community care assessment to enable them to consider their options for care. There will also be further meetings with staff, residents and relatives. The process is likely to last for two or three months. At the end of this time SS will write a report to the Executive Committee who will make the decision on whether it is feasible to close the two homes.

DS said that the Council needs to be aware of the requirements of both residents and staff in order to be able to make a decision. Cllr Haeberling and her colleagues need as much information as possible to help them evaluate the situation.

A relative said that the report in the local paper suggested that if Tyndale and Woodside were sold the Council would receive enough money to solve the financial problem, and 40 ordinary residences could be built on each site.

DS - All the sites will be sold in time.

Cllr Haeberling (FH) said that the Council needs to balance its books. The capital money is already available for the re-provision programme.

A relative said that B&NES has plenty of money to spend on the Spa, but was prepared to close a home for financial reasons and allow old people to die as a result.

DS said that the Press keeps saying people will die if they have to move. He pointed out that none of the residents who moved from Greenacres 18 months ago died as a direct result of the closure although he acknowledged that moving home when a person is seriously frail is a worrying thing to face.

A relative asked where residents would go as there are no vacancies in other homes. DS said that as of today there were 32 vacancies, excluding Sunnyside, and the situation changes all the time because some residents become more frail and need to move to nursing care.

A relative said that her mother was 97 and would not survive the move. She was very distressed even when she moved to a downstairs room at Tyndale. We all find it distressing she said.

Jane Shayler (JS) confirmed that in the interview she gave to the Chronicle she had spoken of the overspend. It did not make sense to spend money on agency staff, where the profit goes to the organization and not to the staff. B&NES cannot spend £250,000 that it does not have. That money is needed to train staff to care for people with higher levels of dependency in the future. JS asserted that at no time did she say that the home needed to close because the authority needed the capital.

A relative said that she had photocopied letters and articles in the Chronicle and sent them to the Prime Minister.

A relative asked about the timing of the re-provision. They had understood that new homes would be available so that residents would move only once. What dates did we expect to have new homes ready?

Cllr FH - that was the original plan, but it has had to change. The Council cannot attract residents or staff because it is known that there will be closures in the future. Agency staff are very good, but the Council wants permanent staff. Two moves may not be necessary as there are different options available.

A relative asked what the timetable was. DS said St John's Court would be first. DS said St John's Court would be ready in the autumn, planning permission for Carrswood will commence in 2004 and it is expected to be ready for occupation in 2006.

A relative said that they were told staff would accompany residents. DS - if people go to private accommodation, staff cannot follow. When Greenacres closed we tried to match staff and residents so that everyone who moved would find one or two staff that they knew in their new home.

A relative said that closure of Tyndale would leave a gap in the area, and asked how many vacancies there were. DS - 10 in Tyndale and 5 in Woodside, leaving 45 people to place. The relative asked if there were enough places. SS - there is a freeze on admissions at present.

A resident asked who pays for private accommodation. SS - the Council can pay, depending on the individual financial assessment.

DS - The Council has a commitment and responsibility to place residents.

A relative asked when the assessments would take place. DS - within the next few weeks. You will probably receive a phone call asking you to come and talk to the assessor.

A relative said that her sister would like to move towards Wiltshire. Would this be possible and would funding be available. DS reassured her that it was possible.

A relative asked about Larkhall Springs, a local residential care home. The Council wouldn't fund it three years ago.

JS - these discussions must take place with individual residents and their families at the assessment. Each assessment should take about three days.

A resident asked why assessments were being done and said that Tyndale was definitely going to close.

DS - Members have to know if all the needs of residents and staff can be catered for before they make a decision on closure. We have to obtain that information for them. We are trying to be open and transparent about the process.

A resident - if other homes can't be closed for the reasons given, then it must be Tyndale and Woodside. SS replied that it was necessary to look at all factors to judge the feasibility of a closure. A relative said that the figures will not change and therefore the decision is already made.

DS said that we have looked at all the homes, and are collecting information on which the Councillors can base their decision.

A resident asked why Tyndale could not stay open for two more years. FH - because the Council has to balance its budget, and is not allowed to overspend money allocated to staffing and running costs.

A relative asked about the letter she had received regarding a workshop - no time was mentioned. The workshop related to a Design Focus Group starting at 9am.

A relative asked if Tyndale closes, could residents remain together as a group? DS - cannot guarantee that at this stage, but will try wherever possible.

Cllr Tony Cox said that it was sad that there were plans to close Tyndale because it is an integral part of Bathford. Problems of occupancy and staffing have been mentioned - couldn't higher occupancy rates be addressed? What efforts were made to do this? The private sector relied heavily on agency staff. He wanted to make two points a) he was concerned about the possibility of two moves for residents because it would be a traumatic experience for them and 2) if moving to Wiltshire is a choice, is B&NES talking to Wiltshire about the options available?

DS - Moving to Wiltshire is a possibility that can be explored through the assessment process if residents express that preference. It would be difficult to comment on use of agency staff in the independent sector. The occupancy problem, in part, had informed future thinking that more people would prefer extra care in their own home.

JS said there was a combination of factors leading to low occupancy rates. Aspirations had changed; there was a dip in demand both for our residential homes and those in the private sector. The Registered Manager has to meet care plan needs and sometimes this is not possible. Not all staff are trained to cope with dementia, some homes do not have assisted bathing suites.

Resident - when will we be given a definite decision?

FH - April or May. JS - It is something of a Catch 22 situation, we need to consult everyone in order to get the information that will inform the decision.

A resident asked if there was a list or booklet about other registered care homes? DS - we will get some information to Sheila Wright to help everyone explore options.

DS- before the report which makes recommendations to Council Members is published another meeting will be arranged with residents, relatives and staff to explain the recommendations of the report.

Meeting ended at 3.05pm