Meeting documents
Cabinet
Wednesday, 2nd October, 2002
Meeting with Carers held at Carrswood RAC
Information sharing regarding Modernisation of Day Services and EPH
re-build - held on 10.06.02
Meeting arranged by:
David Smallacombe
Sandra Lovern
Jim Duffy
Janice Hancock
Introductions took place
Sandra Lovern gave an overview of Day Services Review, White Paper `Valuing People' and how these linked with wider agendas within the council.
David Smallacombe discussed the background of Care Standards regulations. He explained that none of our eight Elderly Persons Homes meet these required standards. A decision had been made by Bath & North East Somerset Council to re-build new homes rather than upgrade or re-furbish existing buildings. Seven sites have been identified as possible location for the new buildings, one of which is the Carrswood site. This has been seen as an opportunity for joined up work, between the Learning Disability Team and Services for Elderly, within the authority.
A new build Day Centre could be included on the site with the Elderly Persons Home. The services would only share a site. It was stressed that the services would not be linked in anyway. It was also stressed that this was only an option and no decisions have been made about which of the seven sites would be selected. The proposal will be taken to the Social Services Committee meeting on 10th July, 2002, when it is expected that councillors will narrow options down to three or possibly four sites.
If Carrswood is one of these options, consultation will take place and plans drawn up of how the site would be used and how uninterrupted services will be provided during the re-build. It is proposed that the site will be divided equally between the two services.
· After this information had been shared the meeting was opened up, inviting comments, questions and answers.
Q:- Why is such a large building required for an Elderly Persons Home (45-60 places)
A:- There are economics attached.
The building will possibly comprise small units for 10 or 12 people
These units will meet varying needs of clients. If needs change, these
can be met in one of the units on site, without the client having to
move to another establishment. This will ensure continuity of care and
staff and clients knowing each other well.
Q:- How many people will be accommodated
A:- It is anticipated between 45 and 60 people
A range of services will be included and it will cover a broad spectrum of need, Bath and North East Somerset Council are at the cutting edge in doing this.
Q:- Timescale: how will it affect Carrswood in the longer term
A:- Quite long. The project is very costly involving several million pounds
Many processes are involved such as tendering, planning etc
We would look at a possible start to the build process in 2004
In spite of this our services will not stand still, the Learning Disability service is
developing and will continue to do so.
Since Jim took post there have been many positive developments and
changes, it has been his aim to work with you and will continue to do
so.
Q:- What will happen to the clients while work is being carried out
A:- This will require careful planning
When we know whether this is a possible option, careful planning will
take place
If someone currently needs a Day Service, this will continue to be provided.
David has experience from elsewhere, that councillors will not allow the site to be
developed until all of these plans are in place
It may be possible to develop the Day Centre first
At this stage we don't know
Q:- How can you have a new Day Centre built if you have no money
A:- If we are releasing the site for the re-build of Elderly Persons Home our Day Centre
would be a capital return
Q:- Will the Elderly Persons Home get priority
A:- No. The Director and Sandra Lovern will ensure a good outcome for both
Sides. The site would be split 50, 50. It sounds well balanced
David stressed that the LD team is well represented by Sandra Lovern
Q:- Will similar Day Centres be included with the other Elderly Persons Home re-builds
such as Tyndale
A:- No this is a one off opportunity, we have no information about further
Services at this point in time
Q:- Will there be a reduction in services
A:- No. People will have an assessment of need and these needs will be met
Many younger people require different services, they do not want to
come to a Day Centre. The services will not be less but will possibly be different
Q:- Where on this site would you build the Day Centre
A:- There are no plans as yet
If the councillors are interested in this site then we will explore further
COMMENT: Proper assessment is important some clients haven't had an assessment for twenty years
A:- Care Management explained
Social Services have a Statutory Duty to make an assessment of need, this may be
repeated if major changes take place, otherwise clients have an annual or two yearly
review. People should not need another full assessment under these circumstances.
Some things Social Services have to plan or provide for - these are called duties.
Some we can choose to do if we have the money - these are called discretions. Bath
and North East Somerset Council has always chosen to make generous provision for
Day Services and there are no plans to alter this.
Q:- On the list of sites visited, where would you place this site in order of priority
A:- Every site has opportunities and constraints
Seven sites will be presented, councillors will be asked for a steer
Q:- Will we be kept up to date where Carrswood drops into the equation
A:- Yes. That's when plans will be made, this will be the important bit, this is when
plans will be made. We will come back with plans and drawings. More important
than the buildings, is the continuation of services etc
This will happen immediately we know whether Carrswood is preferred
Q:- Why can't the grounds of Carrswood be used for activities such as gardening etc.
MENCAP supplied £1,000 to develop this. Carrswood used to grow and supply
plants etc, this now under utilised
A:- Over a period of time interest in this has diminished. This activity has been offered
but there has been a very poor take up. People prefer to go to Folly Farm or to
college. College offered to run a course at Carrswood, it needed six people in order
to make it viable, only three people were interested.
The expansive grounds have become more of a burden than an asset
COMMENT:- People have left Carrswood because they are not happy here
A:- People have choices
Things move on
The council should not provide everything people should be able to access
mainstream activities if they wish. We aim to keep a balance between providing and
accessing services
Q:- Have you had any comments such as not in my back yard
A:- No not yet
It would be pre-emptive to discuss with the community at this point in time, we need
to know whether there is any genuine interest in the site. We would not be changing
the site a great deal. There is specific criteria for objections, all of this will be taken
into consideration, at the appropriate time.
Q:- This is a complicated community, there are violent and destructive elements,
surrounding this area. This is a tranquil oasis in the middle.
Do you feel it is wise to bring 45 or 60 more vulnerable people to this area
A:- This is not David's decision
Elected members will decide
We need to strike a balance between protecting people, while allowing freedom.
Planners and designers can create this balance. This will be given due consideration
SUM UP
· We have aimed to give you honest and open information
· We have answered your questions as fully as we can
· If Carrswood falls out of the equation we will tell you immediately
· If you have any further questions or queries Jim or Janice will be happy to help
· Sandra is on Annual Leave next week although David Smallacombe is around should you require further information