Agenda item

A presentation will be given by Cabinet Member for Finance and Efficiency, Councillor Charles Gerrish and Ashley Ayre, Chief Executive of Bath & North East Somerset Council who will set out the challenges and pressures faced by the Council over the next two years and beyond.  They will be encouraging a wider discussion to explore ideas about how communities can work more closely together.  Attached is some background information to the discussion.  If you are unable to attend this Forum meeting the presentation will also be given at other Forums across the area on the following dates:

29th November, Somer Valley Forum, Town Hall, Midsomer Norton

4th December, Chew Valley Forum, the Library, Chew Valley Secondary School

Ashley Ayre opened the presentation (attached) by explaining the additional pressures that have risen since this time last year and the savings target is now £58 million. B&NES Council will become a smaller organisation over the next two years.

Councillor Charles Gerrish took over the presentation and opened the questions and comments session.

Questions and comments:

Councillor Rob Appleyard – Is the investment that has been made in leisure facilities part of ‘invest for funding’ strategy?

Response – No, the investment has been made to give people the opportunity to improve their health and wellbeing.

Councillor Shaun Stephenson-McGall – Where recycling has been mentioned in this presentation the focus is on saving the Council money, there has been no mention of the importance of saving the planet.

Response – We agree that the environment is important and every effort needs to be made to encourage everybody to do the right thing.

George Samios – The figure quoted of a 14% increase in children going into care sounds high, what are the reasons.

Response – The starting point is very low, with all additional cases there are court fees. Some of the complex cases can require care packages that very expensive.

Councillor Dine Romero – Last year there was a discussion around tourism tax, are there any plans to continue looking at this possibility? How likely is it that likely is it that the government will listen and how quickly can we expect this to happen?

Response – The Council Leader has meetings planned with Central Government in the near future to look at how Local Authorities can be given new income raising powers that can be used to meet the local needs; this includes looking at tourism tax.

Councillor Dine Romero – What can we expect to see as the alternative meals on wheels offering? Will this just be a drop off service?

Response – The final decision has not get been agreed, we have looked at the option of working with Age UK as the care element of the service is seen as important. 

Caroline Kay – The slides in the presentation show overall totals that do not add up from the information shown on the slides.

Response – These are illustrations, there are areas such as Council Tax rises, revenue from Heritage and our Property Company that all need to be included.

Caroline Kay – Local Authorities across the UK are struggling, how can we tell how B&NES fits into the scale of the impacts versus others? Are the efficiencies that we are seeing comparable when you take into account the level of assets that B&NES have available to them?

Response – The presentation shows a table on Council Tax which illustrates what B&NES charges compared to others. A combination of factors make this year’s positions tougher, other authorities went earlier in making the cuts and we are playing catch up. B&NES does benefit from the income from visitor numbers but also has the downside of having to pay for higher numbers of aging residents and the way our high quality special schools offering attracts people from outside the area.

Robin Kerr – Bath is now the most populated city in England with its student population making up proportionally 25% of the people living here. The students are paying no council tax and the government are not compensating B&NES for this missing income. The government need to understand the impact on communities, there needs to be a student accommodation document that sets out a strategy that also deals with the loss of business rates. What are the Council doing about this and is there dialogue taking place with the Universities?

Response – The Leader of the Council is working with the University Cities of England in putting forward a joint case to government. The Universities are talking to the Council, this is important as there are more HMOs, more Students and the loss of the rate support grant. 

Councillor Lin Patterson – What additional reduction in council offices will we be seeing?

Response – The move of the one stop shop to the podium will free up space in Manvers Street for other uses.

Councillor Lin Patterson – How are people to be supported in staying well if funding is to be reduced?

Response – Support from within communities will be required and different approaches will need to be taken.

Councillor Joe Rayment – This year the presentation that has been given is an improvement on last year. I do think that the idea that this is a consultation on the budget does not feel right. From what I see we are in a real financial mess and are being forced to make 300 people lose their jobs. Are we considering a referendum for a high increase in Council Tax?

Response – It is too early in the process to say what the level of Council Tax increase will be. If however we did hold a referendum the cost would be around £200,000 and it is not certain that residents will be in agreement. Additionally the delay caused would lead to a hold up in collections that would result in losses that we would never get back.  We will consider the option to increase the Adult Social Care Precept.

Councillor Joe Rayment – The recycling methods that we have always adopted could be changed so that we look at sorting increased levels of recyclables downstream?

Response – We will look at the contract for recycling when it comes up for renewal. We all should encourage and educate our neighbours into doing everything possible to maximise recycling.

Councillor Dine Romero – It is looking likely that residents will be looking at a 5% overall Council Tax Bill increase, 2% on Council Tax and 3% on Adult Social Care. There needs to be effective lobbying of central government to compensate for the additional burdens that are happening now with Adult Care numbers and extra place needed for Children needs.

The introduction of a Metro Mayor seemed to imply that the full business rate retention would be given as part of the deal, could it be calcified if this is still only a pilot period or if it is being implemented fully?

Response – The business rate retention scheme was introduced after WECA came into being, this was not offered as an upfront benefit.

B&NES did join the pilot scheme for the localisation of business rates, by joining we have benefited through immediate growth gains. There is still going to be an evolution of national policy that will determine how the rate will be revenue neutral. 

The lobby of government will continue and we are highlighting a number of areas such as, student numbers, tourism levy, charitable business rate relief, permitted development rights and special education needs.

George Samios – As a headmaster in the City I see the discussions with children about the importance of recycling and they see this is the right thing to do.

Response – Thanks for the efforts that you are making.

George Samios - The message that the most vulnerable people are being taken care of is good to hear and is linked to the point I make about funding for schools.

School funding over the next two years sees an extra £3.5 million being shared across the area. If however the choice is made to move to the new formula for allocation of the funding the five most deprived schools in the area will lose out on £200,000. It is now up to Councillor Paul May to make a decision.

Response - The decision is scheduled on the forward plan, the Council does not make the decision alone, and the schools forum will be involved with this. Councillor Gerrish said that he will look to see what can be done on this.

Virginia Williamson – How can the Council Consultation be widened to involve the harder to reach residents and get a cross range of organisations and residents better informed?

Response – This presentation is only the starting point and we recognise that the process will take further engagement sessions that will look ahead to further years. Getting a wide range of people involved is important and the third sector group and the area forums are part of the overall methods we will use.

Rosie Phillips – the setting of expectations needs to be carefully managed when delivering awareness. The broader picture needs to be looked at and avoidance of just listening to the loudest voices only is needed.

Response – The role of the Council is changing and a broader role for the community will be required. We want greater engagement with proactive and positive groups.

Ashley Ayre – All of the Divisional Director Plans will be published and will go to scrutiny in January 2018, a range of plans for savings will be going to the panel. Any proposals for alternative savings will need to be set out with the financial implications.

Councillor Shaun Stephenson-McGall – This year’s plans from Bristol Council were set out in November 2017 line by line. We should aspire to reach this level of detail for the next years round at around September 2018. As Adult Social Care is such a large part of the budget it would be encouraged if the cabinet member could attend these meetings to give greater levels of detail.

Response – This year saw late pressures from social care and the overspend which was only identified in August 2017.

Councillor Shaun Stephenson-McGall – Have the two MPs been invited to give their opinions on the budget?

Response – Yes, the NES MP has already met and the Bath MP is meeting next Friday.  

Councillor Shaun Stephenson-McGall – Have the changes that are being made to parking charges within residential zones in Bristol been looked at?

Response – This is something that we will be looking into.